"nesredep egrob" Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40 wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:59:30 -0000, ":Jerry:"
wrote:

"John" wrote in message
. ..

snip

It seems really strange this, so I am thinking that either it is
just
bad DL media that I am using or maybe Nero has an error when it is
encoding or burning the DVD? Surely though if it is bad DL media I
wouldn't have 4 coasters in a row? The chances of that are quite
slim,
you would have at least got one good burn out of four usually even
with a bad bunch of media you have half okay half bad.


Hmm, it's unlikely that you have a whole batch of bad disks but what
it could be is that the media is incompatible with the burner,
although rare these days it can still occur, I would certainly try
different media.

FU's set.


I should certainly use a DVD/RW for the first burn - then you don't
make any
coasters.

Hmm, if I had doubts about encoding I would write to a set of *_TS
files on the HDD and then check for errors, if I had doubts about
burring to a certain type of media and needed to check for burning
errors how would writing to a different media help?

I have in any case given up on Nero. It never started smart and
certainly is not smart now - Look at what deskshare has got - it
works for me as
does also Roxio.


IMO Nero is good at burning a disk image or simple data burning, it's
not so smart at encoding or constructing file structures prior to
burning.

Do you have to split them yourself or does Nero split them to record both
sides. A bit like when coping a DVD to a DVD+ R it stops and asks for a
second disc to be inserted., I hav not botherd with DL as its quicker and
cheaper to use two discs

That would be interesting to know.

I just went back into Nero re-encoded using lower quality setting for
the video files. I changed it from Standard Play to Extended Play. So
this has dropped the quality from 5073 kbits/s to 2537.

I have sucessfully burned it onto a Verbatim DVD-RW disc.

I am curious to know now why it wouldn't burn onto the DL +R discs.

My drive supports Dual layer so perhaps it was just those particular
discs that were at fault? Maybe if I tried Verbatims either DL +R or
DL -R it would work?

I think it was either a bad batch of DL +R discs, or maybe my machine
prefers -R discs to +R for making a Video DVD? I've not had problems
burning data to Dual Layer +R discs in the past but they were
Verbatims.

I might buy a couple DL+R and DL -R Verbatims just to test on and see
if it can burn to these.

It would be interesting to know though for single sided discs if I
kept the quality the same would Nero Burning Rom let me start the burn
to a single layer disc if it knew my video_ts contents was more than
the 4.7GB? And would it then ask for the second disc halfway through?
Or can you just not do this sort of spanning with Nero for a Video
DVD?

If you wanted to keep the quality the same and span two single layer
discs to do that and Nero burning Rom wouldn't allow you to do it that
way then you'd probably have to go into the project in NVE again split
it halfway and as the last screen just put in a slide show with one
image displayed for 5 minutes saying to change discs. That would be a
way round that if Nero Burning Rom doesn't allow spanning. You would
have to re-encode everything again though.

John

Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need to
do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with Nero
Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
through the encoding process again.

Hi. That is what I had been doing. NVE had been encoding the video_ts
folder onto my hard drive and then I've been burning using Nero
burning rom onto dvd disc.

I hadn't thought that I would be able to watch the dvd from the hard
drive video_ts folder prior to burning. That is a good idea that. I've
just gone into Nero Showtime now and noticed this "play from folder"
option in the menu so I will have to check if the previous titles that
didn't work on the DL media work when I try playing from the hard
drive instead. I have kept a backup of two previous encodings I did to
the HDD in standard quality for the DL discs so will test this out
very soon.

My project contains quite a lot of slides shows with background music
and 4 DV video files from MiniDV camcorder. Two of the video files are
just three minutes long, one is about 30 minutes long and the other is
1 hour and 20 minutes in length.

You might find that the video is being encoded at the maximum bitrate, which
is a problem for a lot of DVD players with DVDR media. For DV sourced
material, you won't see a benefit with the video bitrate higher than
6500kbps. If you have the time to wait for two-pass VBR, you can set the
average from 4500 to 6500kbps and it will still be impossible to see any
difference from the source material.

The quality of my video when I was encoding for the DL disc was 5073
kbits/s (standard play) but I had to drop this to 2537 kbits/s for the
single layer disc. I think the maximum bit rate would be the High
Quality setting in NVE and that is 9716 kbits/s.

All my video is captured from mini-DV and I would like it to be at the
best quality possible, as close to the original source as possible
while getting it onto a DL disc. My average setting was the Standard
Play mode which was 5073 kbits/s and I don't really want to drop this
to 2537 so it fits on single layer.


In the video editor part, click the "More" button and then click "Video
options". In the DVD-Video tab, change the quality setting from "Automatic"
to "Standard Play" and the Encoding mode to "High quality". If you can, you
should also change the audio to Dolby 2.0 rather than Stereo.

I already had the setting on Standard Play and it was on a high
quality 2 pass VBR encoding. I had kept the audio though on Automatic
setting. I will try changing that to Dolby as well.

Do you think it will make a difference if I export all the individual
titles and bring back in again so that all the effects, texts, music,
edits etc are all within the one video file and then not creating any
chapters for the different titles?

I don't think it will make a great deal of difference - if possible, you
should always avoid rendering to an intermediate filetype before creating
your DVD.


...I am thinking perhaps having less
individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
of it can go wrong?

If that's an option, you might find better compatibility with single-layer
DVDR than dual. The price-per-gigabyte of dual has never come down as low as
single, so all my chargeable work has been sent out on SL discs. I've never
had a return - ever. (Well, not because of compatibility problems anyway.)
If the average bitrate needs to drop below 3000kbps in order to fit onto SL
disc, I just span the content across two discs.

Is it below 3000kbps that you start to notice the difference in
quality? The video I watched back on parts of the DL discs that worked
did look a lot better than what it does on this single layer rw disc I
have burned to.

I will have to try playing back the folders in Nero Show Time from the
original burns I did to Hard Drive and see if those ones work that
didn't work when I burned to DL disc. I am going to get some
Verbatims though both +R and -R DLs to see if it works on them.

Cheers

John

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:22:29 +0000, John wrote:


Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need to
do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with Nero
Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
through the encoding process again.

I've just checked in Nero Showtime playing back the hard drive folder
and it seems to be perfect in there. One part of the video plays back
a little slow but I believe that is just my system. It looks good
playing back the hard drive folder.

It looks like this is pointing the way of bad +R DL media? Unless it
didn't like me encoding at 5073 kbit/s (standard play)?

John

"John" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:22:29 +0000, John wrote:


Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need
to
do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with
Nero
Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
through the encoding process again.

I've just checked in Nero Showtime playing back the hard drive folder
and it seems to be perfect in there. One part of the video plays back
a little slow but I believe that is just my system. It looks good
playing back the hard drive folder.

It looks like this is pointing the way of bad +R DL media? Unless it
didn't like me encoding at 5073 kbit/s (standard play)?

Have you tried it in someone else's machine, or their media in your player?
It's possible you have bad media, but it's possible you have a player that
simply doesn't like DL discs. I've yet to try my latest player with DLs, but
the next newest one 2½ years old) stutters with DL media.

If it's an AVERAGE of 5073, then that's bad. Slow bits drop well below that
rate so that fast bits can use more bandwidth - up to 9800. When the bitrate
goes too high (with DVDR) then that's one area where you can experience
stuttering playback. Even with SL discs.

With a DV source, you'll probably not notice any problems with 5073 CBR,
although some footage (confetti, sea surface, trees in the wind etc) may
show slight artefacts.

Just for more info: Pressed DVDs support a continuous video data rate of
9800 kbps and an overall (that's everything: video, audio and subtitles)
maximum of 10.08 kbps. A typical Hollywood film maintains an average of
4000-5000 just for the video, so factor in a DTS soundtrack, a 5.1 AC3
soundtrack and a handful of commentary or second language tracks and you're
around a 5500 to 6500 average. That's for a high-quality source, and we're
talking DV here...

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 02:42:36 GMT, "G Hardy"
wrote:

"John" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:22:29 +0000, John wrote:


Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need
to
do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with
Nero
Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
through the encoding process again.

I've just checked in Nero Showtime playing back the hard drive folder
and it seems to be perfect in there. One part of the video plays back
a little slow but I believe that is just my system. It looks good
playing back the hard drive folder.

It looks like this is pointing the way of bad +R DL media? Unless it
didn't like me encoding at 5073 kbit/s (standard play)?

Have you tried it in someone else's machine, or their media in your player?

Yeah. I tried the DL disc in a stand alone DVD Player as well
connected to a television. It was faulty on that too so that's why I
think its bad media. I will buy a few Verbatims both +R DL and -R DL
and see if it works with them. It is very difficult to source -R DL
though especially ones that have a printable surface, you just can't
get them anywhere, it seems to be all +R for dual layer media.

It's possible you have bad media, but it's possible you have a player that
simply doesn't like DL discs. I've yet to try my latest player with DLs, but
the next newest one 2½ years old) stutters with DL media.

I have the Pioneer DVR-109 burner on my PC for burning DVDs and I have
the Pioneer DVD-106 (region free) for playing back on PC. Then I have
a stand alone player as well connected to television. If my drive has
a problem with this DL media, maybe it is just the +R DL media for
video? It's just that I have burned data to +R DL media on my computer
no problem.

If it's an AVERAGE of 5073, then that's bad. Slow bits drop well below that
rate so that fast bits can use more bandwidth - up to 9800. When the bitrate
goes too high (with DVDR) then that's one area where you can experience
stuttering playback. Even with SL discs.

5073 kbits/s is the setting for standard play in NVE. Would you
recommend changing that up or down? I could probably increase it about
200 or 300 kbits/s higher if I select the custom setting but anymore
than that and my project would not fit on a DL disc.

John

5073 kbits/s is the setting for standard play in NVE. Would you
recommend changing that up or down? I could probably increase it about
200 or 300 kbits/s higher if I select the custom setting but anymore
than that and my project would not fit on a DL disc.

If your project was 5500 kbits (say) then the project would need to be 3h
26m for it to fill a DL disc.

I thought from your OPs it was more of the order of 2h with a couple of
slideshows set to music? Something's not adding up, here...

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:37:15 GMT, "G Hardy"
wrote:

5073 kbits/s is the setting for standard play in NVE. Would you
recommend changing that up or down? I could probably increase it about
200 or 300 kbits/s higher if I select the custom setting but anymore
than that and my project would not fit on a DL disc.

If your project was 5500 kbits (say) then the project would need to be 3h
26m for it to fill a DL disc.

I thought from your OPs it was more of the order of 2h with a couple of
slideshows set to music? Something's not adding up, here...

Hi, it is just over 3 hours in length.

I have three video files. The first video file is just over 3 minutes
in length. This is added to the project twice near the beginning. So
that's about 6 mins 30 secs.

The second video file is 34 minutes long and the third video file is 1
hour 29 minutes long. Then I have opening credits 3 minutes long and
closing credits about 4 minutes long.

There are 16 slide shows with background music. These in total are
about 54 minutes in length.

So altogether with the video files, slideshows and opening and closing
credits I have about 191 minutes just over 3 hours. This is all at
720x576 (CCIR-601D1) 4:3 in Standard Play mode (5073 kbits/s). Used
space as stated in NVE is 7.30 out of 7.95GB.

John

"John" wrote in message
...

I thought from your OPs it was more of the order of 2h with a couple of
slideshows set to music? Something's not adding up, here...

Hi, it is just over 3 hours in length.

I have three video files. The first video file is just over 3 minutes
in length. This is added to the project twice near the beginning. So
that's about 6 mins 30 secs.

The second video file is 34 minutes long and the third video file is 1
hour 29 minutes long. Then I have opening credits 3 minutes long and
closing credits about 4 minutes long.

There are 16 slide shows with background music. These in total are
about 54 minutes in length.

So altogether with the video files, slideshows and opening and closing
credits I have about 191 minutes just over 3 hours. This is all at
720x576 (CCIR-601D1) 4:3 in Standard Play mode (5073 kbits/s). Used
space as stated in NVE is 7.30 out of 7.95GB.

The slideshows' effect on the amount of discspace needed will be quite
small - unless they are actually videos made up of still images, in which
case they are not true slideshows but videos. It's semantics, but important.
As far as I can tell, a DVD slideshow is a series of navigable single frames
encoded as MPEG I frames, and you can specify the time between frames etc.
So basically you end up with a tiny video file, with the audio taking up
more room. If there are fancy effects like image panning and crossfades,
what you've actually got is a video, and there's no need to distinguish that
from the other video on your DVD.

If Nero does create slideshows as video, you should make your DVD folder at
the highest acceptable bitrate, then use Nero Recode to get it down to
single layer disc size. Recode will analyse the video to determine where it
can make savings and will yield the best quality for the available space.

Rounding everything up to the next minute, I get:
7+35+90+4+5+55 = 196 minutes or 11,760 sec

On a DL disc you have 8.5GB which is 68,000,000 kbit
Divide the latter by the former to get a desired average bitrate (audio +
video) of 5780 kbit/s

On a SL disc you have 4.7GB which is 37,600,000 kbit
yielding a desired average bitrate (audio + video) of 3190 kbit/s

Use AC3 at 225kbit to give average video bitrates of 5556 and 2966 kbit/s
respectively

Considering your source media is stills and DV, I reckon that creating the
VIDEO_TS folder for DL disc and then running it through recode for SL discs
will get rid of your stutter problem and still yield acceptable quality.
Note that crossfades on stills are particularly demanding on bandwidth, so
if your slideshow has them, consider replacing them with a different
transition.

As yet, I haven't seen anything to convince me that it's bad media. I'm not
saying that's not the problem, just that it could be a player issue. If it
is bad media, I _do_ think it's likely to be a whole batch (the only time
I've had problems it's been with every disc in a tub. Started a new tub
after a dozen or so failures - problem went away). Have you tried Jerry's
suggestion of different media?

[ One group cut, not available on my posting server ]

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...

snip

As yet, I haven't seen anything to convince me that it's bad media.
I'm not saying that's not the problem, just that it could be a
player issue. If it is bad media, I _do_ think it's likely to be a
whole batch (the only time I've had problems it's been with every
disc in a tub. Started a new tub after a dozen or so failures -
problem went away). Have you tried Jerry's suggestion of different
media?

I would also add (or should I say repeat), that there could be an
incompatibility between media and burner, I've had this once - my then
burner kept kicking out floaters, used a different make (dye) and all
was well, I have since changed the burner and used the old media
without problem in this new burner - go figure...

FU's set