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| UK Digital Video (uk.rec.video.digital) For the discussion of all aspects of digital video, including all digital video formats, camera use, editing, post production & all associated equipment, hardware and software. Advertising is prohibited. |
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#1
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| I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Would a mac powerbook pro be powerful enough to run FCP well? Is the FCP studio software bundle really that good? I don't really want to buy another desktop, even though it would be cheaper and probably more powerful, as I plan to keep the PC for doing everything else. The cost and learning curve is a consideration but not the main one. I have always been a PC person, primarily because of cost and the ability to simply build my own machines over the years. I guess the ideal solution would be that Apple sold FCP for Windows. Now that they are going to the intel processors, is that a possibility? I realize that this is a fairly unspecific question, but I would appreciate any opinions that people might have to offer. Thanks a lot for any advice. |
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#2
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| "Luis Ortega" wrote in message ... I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Don't be swayed by the hype PPro2 is vastly capable. As is the AVID offering. You would be wasting money. IMHO. Get After Effects. I never saw any realy use in the music portion of the Soundtrack Pro tool. Others have. But as a composer.. it was useless to me. YOU would be spending a great deal of money for hardware and software for minimal benefit. |
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#3
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| Luis, I have the same opinion as nappy. Using the very latest version of FCP Studio HD on the very latest / fastest Apple Desktop workstation (Xeon Quad MacPro 3.0GHz) I have found the rendering and previewing of content to take far longer than the PCs I use here which are much less expensive and have much less expensive software. I am seriously considering dumping the entire system in fact, although there are situations where this Apple solution does make a lot of sense, namely, if you are in an already established Apple environment, or if you do mostly multiple camera NLE. The program called Motion is a lot like After Effects but to me is less appealing. The Compressor software in Final Cut is terribly slow. Most irritating to me is the Apple pre-occupation with their Quicktime formats and the lack of support for mpeg2. I use the Vegas / DVD Architect suite, Premiere, and several other PC tools which get the job done very efficiently, and I almost never turn the MacPro on. I think a laptop running this suite would be even more disappointing in terms of performance to say nothing of the screen space limitations unless you also add a big monitor. Even if you did, Motion and other Apple software uses the graphics processor card(s) for rendering, and even the extra cost very high performance $450 card I added to this MacPro is still marginal.....and I hate to imagine how a laptop's graphics card would waste a lot of waiting time. I hate to get into this Apple versus PC discussion at all, because it sparks a lot of discussion with a lot of heat and smoke, but very little "light". I would only caution you before spending many thousands of dollars as I did for FCP Suite HD and Apple hardware to get a lot of opinions before taking the plunge. If this is Apple bashing, so be it...but I readily admit that I have owned many Macs starting with the 512K machine over 20 years ago, have owned Apple stock, etc......but I just do not think FCP and the hardware to support it make the most sense for many if not most users. Smarty "nappy" wrote in message ... "Luis Ortega" wrote in message ... I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Don't be swayed by the hype PPro2 is vastly capable. As is the AVID offering. You would be wasting money. IMHO. Get After Effects. I never saw any realy use in the music portion of the Soundtrack Pro tool. Others have. But as a composer.. it was useless to me. YOU would be spending a great deal of money for hardware and software for minimal benefit. |
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#4
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| Since we are top posting.... FCP Studio is really looking its age compared to other offerings such as Adobe's suite of applications. But, you'd have to be living up your own ass if you weren't aware that Apple are making a big announcement at NAB just a few days away now. If you are interested in FCP wait until Apple have done one of "their look at us aren't we great" presentations at NAB then make a decision. It has been heavily rumoured that FCP has been given a drastic rewrite to make use of GPU and multi-core processors along with QT itself. The new 8 core Mac Pro is showing little or no improvement in speed over the 4 core Mac Pro in FCP so if Apple want to keep selling its Mac Pros for editing they had better have got FCP multi threading like crazy. You might just get a free grading system thrown in too. Apple bought Final Touch so that might end up in the FCS box. Other applications in FCP Studio, IMO, are excellent. Motion and DVD STudio Pro are the two apps I bought FCS for. Motion is not an after effects and it is not meant to be. It is much more useful than Smarty indicates. I use it for pre-viz, DVD menus, 2d animation and IMO it is almost superb. It lacks some features that prevent me using it more e.g. a tracker. FCP - Showing its age. Motion - Good start but lacks some really useful features like a tracker and 3d! Still work in progress. Soundtrack - Looks nice but fails to deliver and feels like a beta release. Logic Pro is well worth the money though. DVD Studio Pro - IMO still second best to Scenarist. Luis, My advice would be to look at PremPro2 and its productions suite, certainly have a _serious_ look at Edius and its HD accelerator boards which are superb. Vegas has a very poor GUI. Ideal for educators... Wait 'til NAB before jumping. Smarty wrote: Luis, I have the same opinion as nappy. Using the very latest version of FCP Studio HD on the very latest / fastest Apple Desktop workstation (Xeon Quad MacPro 3.0GHz) I have found the rendering and previewing of content to take far longer than the PCs I use here which are much less expensive and have much less expensive software. I am seriously considering dumping the entire system in fact, although there are situations where this Apple solution does make a lot of sense, namely, if you are in an already established Apple environment, or if you do mostly multiple camera NLE. The program called Motion is a lot like After Effects but to me is less appealing. The Compressor software in Final Cut is terribly slow. Most irritating to me is the Apple pre-occupation with their Quicktime formats and the lack of support for mpeg2. I use the Vegas / DVD Architect suite, Premiere, and several other PC tools which get the job done very efficiently, and I almost never turn the MacPro on. I think a laptop running this suite would be even more disappointing in terms of performance to say nothing of the screen space limitations unless you also add a big monitor. Even if you did, Motion and other Apple software uses the graphics processor card(s) for rendering, and even the extra cost very high performance $450 card I added to this MacPro is still marginal.....and I hate to imagine how a laptop's graphics card would waste a lot of waiting time. I hate to get into this Apple versus PC discussion at all, because it sparks a lot of discussion with a lot of heat and smoke, but very little "light". I would only caution you before spending many thousands of dollars as I did for FCP Suite HD and Apple hardware to get a lot of opinions before taking the plunge. If this is Apple bashing, so be it...but I readily admit that I have owned many Macs starting with the 512K machine over 20 years ago, have owned Apple stock, etc......but I just do not think FCP and the hardware to support it make the most sense for many if not most users. Smarty "nappy" wrote in message ... "Luis Ortega" wrote in message ... I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Don't be swayed by the hype PPro2 is vastly capable. As is the AVID offering. You would be wasting money. IMHO. Get After Effects. I never saw any realy use in the music portion of the Soundtrack Pro tool. Others have. But as a composer.. it was useless to me. YOU would be spending a great deal of money for hardware and software for minimal benefit. |
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#5
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| New releases of FCP or an improved NLE would certainly cause me to re-evaluate my opinion, and I am a sufficiently big Mac fanboy that I could get sucked into buying yet another Mac and another NLE from Apple. The forthcoming re-introduction of Premiere for the Mac is another temptation. DVDStudio Pro is truly an excellent product, and Motion could be a real winner if they added 3D and especially if they speed it up. I readily admit that I did not give Motion a full try-out, but I am impatient with the rendering performance. One of its' templates with bubbling water is nothing short of spectacular to view, and it has excellent creative power. Also LiveType, which both Spex and I did not mention before, does some very unique titling effects. A massive rewrite is a good thing for FCP IMHO. I run a little widget called "Performance Monitor" which has a real-time bar graph of how the 4 processors are being loaded, and FCP / Compressor / Motion / etc. all show the 4 cores being utilized almost equally with true load sharing apparently taking place. It is my speculation that the urgency of porting FCP into a Universal Binary, and thereby rewriting the whole shebang in whatever codebase they used (Codewarrior, MacApp, Codeworks, C++, etc.) was the true culprit in killing performance, since the original apps were optimized over years for the PowerPC and its vector processing, and then needed to run native in an Intel host when the new Macs were introduced. I suspect this forced them to migrate very non-optimally, sacrificing run-time performance to get it out sooner. Just a guess on my part as I certainly have no way of knowing for sure, but there should be absolutely no reason why so much Intel horsepower as a Quad Xeon with their fastest 3.0GHz processors and huge caches and 1066 Mhz front side buses should run Vegas 7 like greased lightning but run FCP like frozen molasses. My understanding of the MacPro game plan is to offer blue laser burners to be introduced with more HD authoring at the WWDC Developer Conference this summer. (This comes from one of my kids who is directly connected with Apple.) but no other hardware bumps near to intermediate term. I will wait this one out......... Vegas is just so fast, so competent, and so relatively cheap that I can only conclude that FCP would need a huge re-work to regain my support and willingness to buy into it yet another time. Smarty "Spex" wrote in message ... Since we are top posting.... FCP Studio is really looking its age compared to other offerings such as Adobe's suite of applications. But, you'd have to be living up your own ass if you weren't aware that Apple are making a big announcement at NAB just a few days away now. If you are interested in FCP wait until Apple have done one of "their look at us aren't we great" presentations at NAB then make a decision. It has been heavily rumoured that FCP has been given a drastic rewrite to make use of GPU and multi-core processors along with QT itself. The new 8 core Mac Pro is showing little or no improvement in speed over the 4 core Mac Pro in FCP so if Apple want to keep selling its Mac Pros for editing they had better have got FCP multi threading like crazy. You might just get a free grading system thrown in too. Apple bought Final Touch so that might end up in the FCS box. Other applications in FCP Studio, IMO, are excellent. Motion and DVD STudio Pro are the two apps I bought FCS for. Motion is not an after effects and it is not meant to be. It is much more useful than Smarty indicates. I use it for pre-viz, DVD menus, 2d animation and IMO it is almost superb. It lacks some features that prevent me using it more e.g. a tracker. FCP - Showing its age. Motion - Good start but lacks some really useful features like a tracker and 3d! Still work in progress. Soundtrack - Looks nice but fails to deliver and feels like a beta release. Logic Pro is well worth the money though. DVD Studio Pro - IMO still second best to Scenarist. Luis, My advice would be to look at PremPro2 and its productions suite, certainly have a _serious_ look at Edius and its HD accelerator boards which are superb. Vegas has a very poor GUI. Ideal for educators... Wait 'til NAB before jumping. Smarty wrote: Luis, I have the same opinion as nappy. Using the very latest version of FCP Studio HD on the very latest / fastest Apple Desktop workstation (Xeon Quad MacPro 3.0GHz) I have found the rendering and previewing of content to take far longer than the PCs I use here which are much less expensive and have much less expensive software. I am seriously considering dumping the entire system in fact, although there are situations where this Apple solution does make a lot of sense, namely, if you are in an already established Apple environment, or if you do mostly multiple camera NLE. The program called Motion is a lot like After Effects but to me is less appealing. The Compressor software in Final Cut is terribly slow. Most irritating to me is the Apple pre-occupation with their Quicktime formats and the lack of support for mpeg2. I use the Vegas / DVD Architect suite, Premiere, and several other PC tools which get the job done very efficiently, and I almost never turn the MacPro on. I think a laptop running this suite would be even more disappointing in terms of performance to say nothing of the screen space limitations unless you also add a big monitor. Even if you did, Motion and other Apple software uses the graphics processor card(s) for rendering, and even the extra cost very high performance $450 card I added to this MacPro is still marginal.....and I hate to imagine how a laptop's graphics card would waste a lot of waiting time. I hate to get into this Apple versus PC discussion at all, because it sparks a lot of discussion with a lot of heat and smoke, but very little "light". I would only caution you before spending many thousands of dollars as I did for FCP Suite HD and Apple hardware to get a lot of opinions before taking the plunge. If this is Apple bashing, so be it...but I readily admit that I have owned many Macs starting with the 512K machine over 20 years ago, have owned Apple stock, etc......but I just do not think FCP and the hardware to support it make the most sense for many if not most users. Smarty "nappy" wrote in message ... "Luis Ortega" wrote in message ... I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Don't be swayed by the hype PPro2 is vastly capable. As is the AVID offering. You would be wasting money. IMHO. Get After Effects. I never saw any realy use in the music portion of the Soundtrack Pro tool. Others have. But as a composer.. it was useless to me. YOU would be spending a great deal of money for hardware and software for minimal benefit. |
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#6
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| Smarty wrote: New releases of FCP or an improved NLE would certainly cause me to re-evaluate my opinion, and I am a sufficiently big Mac fanboy that I could get sucked into buying yet another Mac and another NLE from Apple. The forthcoming re-introduction of Premiere for the Mac is another temptation. The word on the street is the Sunday announcement is BIG. Take huge pinch of salt! There is some speculation that Phenomenon might be demoed. Take even bigger pinch of salt! DVDStudio Pro is truly an excellent product, and Motion could be a real winner if they added 3D and especially if they speed it up. I readily admit that I did not give Motion a full try-out, but I am impatient with the rendering performance. One of its' templates with bubbling water is nothing short of spectacular to view, and it has excellent creative power. Also LiveType, which both Spex and I did not mention before, does some very unique titling effects. Yep, overlooked that. Live type is a useful tool. A massive rewrite is a good thing for FCP IMHO. I run a little widget called "Performance Monitor" which has a real-time bar graph of how the 4 processors are being loaded, and FCP / Compressor / Motion / etc. all show the 4 cores being utilized almost equally with true load sharing apparently taking place. It is my speculation that the urgency of porting FCP into a Universal Binary, and thereby rewriting the whole shebang in whatever codebase they used (Codewarrior, MacApp, Codeworks, C++, etc.) was the true culprit in killing performance, since the original apps were optimized over years for the PowerPC and its vector processing, and then needed to run native in an Intel host when the new Macs were introduced. I suspect this forced them to migrate very non-optimally, sacrificing run-time performance to get it out sooner. Just a guess on my part as I certainly have no way of knowing for sure, but there should be absolutely no reason why so much Intel horsepower as a Quad Xeon with their fastest 3.0GHz processors and huge caches and 1066 Mhz front side buses should run Vegas 7 like greased lightning but run FCP like frozen molasses. Yep again, but I remember the days of Vegas being dog slow at rendering and was one of the big criticisms of it at the time. It is not beyond the wit of Apple to get FCP optimised like the other NLEs out there. Thankfully I only use FCP to update my vfx/compositing reel so only use it in limited circumstances. I have found it stable tho'. My understanding of the MacPro game plan is to offer blue laser burners to be introduced with more HD authoring at the WWDC Developer Conference this summer. (This comes from one of my kids who is directly connected with Apple.) but no other hardware bumps near to intermediate term. I will wait this one out......... It is very easy to predict what Apple is up to with hardware these days. Just look at Intel road maps and look at what Dell, HP et al are offering in their configurators... We are going ahead with getting an 8 core Mac Pro asap as Lightwave universal will be here shortly and it will make an excellent all-in-one renderfarm. Vegas is just so fast, so competent, and so relatively cheap that I can only conclude that FCP would need a huge re-work to regain my support and willingness to buy into it yet another time. Huge re-works are not uncommon. Vegas itself has undergone a serious amount reworking as has Premiere Pro which in its v2.0 guise is quite excellent I hear from people using it (people shifting from Avid as a lot of us have done). On Sunday we'll find out whether Apple have dropped a bollock or not... Another good reason for going Mac is Shake even though it is EOL it is just sooo good. For the price of a good plugin you can have the mutt's nuts in compositing software. |
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#7
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| Spex.. do you think shake is a better compositor than Combustion? |
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#8
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| nappy wrote: Spex.. do you think shake is a better compositor than Combustion? By a long long way. As you might know/remember I was a big fan of combustion on the PC but since switching full time to Shake I haven't looked back. Once you get into Shake you realise the likes of After Effects and combustion are missing a lot of tools that are required for doing compositing at the highest quality level. It's the difference between being nearly right to being absolutely right. Shake is entirely useless as a motion graphics tool it is just not what it is designed for whereas combustion excels in that field. Before someone replies and say Shake can do motion graphics, yeah ok if you are a complete masochist. Horses for courses...as always. |
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#9
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| "Spex" wrote in message ... nappy wrote: Spex.. do you think shake is a better compositor than Combustion? By a long long way. As you might know/remember I was a big fan of combustion on the PC but since switching full time to Shake I haven't looked back. Once you get into Shake you realise the likes of After Effects and combustion are missing a lot of tools that are required for doing compositing at the highest quality level. It's the difference between being nearly right to being absolutely right. Shake is entirely useless as a motion graphics tool it is just not what it is designed for whereas combustion excels in that field. Before someone replies and say Shake can do motion graphics, yeah ok if you are a complete masochist. Horses for courses...as always. good one.. thanks |
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#10
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| Thanks, guys. I will wait until after NAB to see what they come up with. I am currently using Premier Pro 2 and want to see what PProCS3 has to offer along with their production suite. As a teacher, I can get a good deal on this. One reason I have for wanting to go to FCP is that at my school I will inherit a dozen G5s next term for my art studio and I need to be able to use it well. They are currently running FCP 4 but the school may upgrade to studio 5. Right now my lab has PPro 1 as the editor the kids use. At home I use PPro 2 mostly. I haven't upgraded to Avid beyond version 5.2 of Xpress DV Pro HD because it seems to have outgrown my hardware specs and has become more finicky. Also, for my interest in doing stop motion animation, PPro seems to be a lot better to manipulate motion and layers. What I always liked best about Avid was its great control in basic cutting and trimming. I was equally impressed by what I saw FCP do in that area. In my brief experience with it, it looked like it had the best features of PPro and Avid plus a few other very attractive things. I never did get a chance to explore the other apps in the FCP studio. "Spex" wrote in message ... Since we are top posting.... FCP Studio is really looking its age compared to other offerings such as Adobe's suite of applications. But, you'd have to be living up your own ass if you weren't aware that Apple are making a big announcement at NAB just a few days away now. If you are interested in FCP wait until Apple have done one of "their look at us aren't we great" presentations at NAB then make a decision. It has been heavily rumoured that FCP has been given a drastic rewrite to make use of GPU and multi-core processors along with QT itself. The new 8 core Mac Pro is showing little or no improvement in speed over the 4 core Mac Pro in FCP so if Apple want to keep selling its Mac Pros for editing they had better have got FCP multi threading like crazy. You might just get a free grading system thrown in too. Apple bought Final Touch so that might end up in the FCS box. Other applications in FCP Studio, IMO, are excellent. Motion and DVD STudio Pro are the two apps I bought FCS for. Motion is not an after effects and it is not meant to be. It is much more useful than Smarty indicates. I use it for pre-viz, DVD menus, 2d animation and IMO it is almost superb. It lacks some features that prevent me using it more e.g. a tracker. FCP - Showing its age. Motion - Good start but lacks some really useful features like a tracker and 3d! Still work in progress. Soundtrack - Looks nice but fails to deliver and feels like a beta release. Logic Pro is well worth the money though. DVD Studio Pro - IMO still second best to Scenarist. Luis, My advice would be to look at PremPro2 and its productions suite, certainly have a _serious_ look at Edius and its HD accelerator boards which are superb. Vegas has a very poor GUI. Ideal for educators... Wait 'til NAB before jumping. Smarty wrote: Luis, I have the same opinion as nappy. Using the very latest version of FCP Studio HD on the very latest / fastest Apple Desktop workstation (Xeon Quad MacPro 3.0GHz) I have found the rendering and previewing of content to take far longer than the PCs I use here which are much less expensive and have much less expensive software. I am seriously considering dumping the entire system in fact, although there are situations where this Apple solution does make a lot of sense, namely, if you are in an already established Apple environment, or if you do mostly multiple camera NLE. The program called Motion is a lot like After Effects but to me is less appealing. The Compressor software in Final Cut is terribly slow. Most irritating to me is the Apple pre-occupation with their Quicktime formats and the lack of support for mpeg2. I use the Vegas / DVD Architect suite, Premiere, and several other PC tools which get the job done very efficiently, and I almost never turn the MacPro on. I think a laptop running this suite would be even more disappointing in terms of performance to say nothing of the screen space limitations unless you also add a big monitor. Even if you did, Motion and other Apple software uses the graphics processor card(s) for rendering, and even the extra cost very high performance $450 card I added to this MacPro is still marginal.....and I hate to imagine how a laptop's graphics card would waste a lot of waiting time. I hate to get into this Apple versus PC discussion at all, because it sparks a lot of discussion with a lot of heat and smoke, but very little "light". I would only caution you before spending many thousands of dollars as I did for FCP Suite HD and Apple hardware to get a lot of opinions before taking the plunge. If this is Apple bashing, so be it...but I readily admit that I have owned many Macs starting with the 512K machine over 20 years ago, have owned Apple stock, etc......but I just do not think FCP and the hardware to support it make the most sense for many if not most users. Smarty "nappy" wrote in message ... "Luis Ortega" wrote in message ... I value the advice that I have been given here on many occasions. I recently took a course on Final Cut Pro 5 and I was very impressed by what I saw. The studio version includes a music creation program and a special effects program that some say is comparable to After Effects, plus a dvd creation program and some sort of file format converter, which I think is called Compressor.. My current software is Avid Xpress DV HD and Premiere Pro 2 on Windows. FCP seems to have all of the features of Avid and Premiere Pro plus a few more very interesting workflow features. My question is what people who are really familiar with these programs think about the idea of getting a macbook pro and FCP studio 5 as opposed to continuing with the Windows series of programs that I already own. I didn't have enough time to really get into all of the programs of FCP, and I am not that familiar with how stable Apples and FCP are. Don't be swayed by the hype PPro2 is vastly capable. As is the AVID offering. You would be wasting money. IMHO. Get After Effects. I never saw any realy use in the music portion of the Soundtrack Pro tool. Others have. But as a composer.. it was useless to me. YOU would be spending a great deal of money for hardware and software for minimal benefit. |
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