Hi all,

I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats and would
like to speak to anyone who uses either HDD, DVD or Mini DV models
about the benefits and drawbacks of these formats in everyday use and
from an editing point of view.

I know I could ask the "industry analysts" or the manufacturuers, but
I'd much rather get a steer from people who actually use the beasts.

Many thanks for any input

Stewart Mitchell

"Mitchell" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats and would
like to speak to anyone who uses either HDD, DVD or Mini DV models
about the benefits and drawbacks of these formats in everyday use and
from an editing point of view.

I know I could ask the "industry analysts" or the manufacturuers, but
I'd much rather get a steer from people who actually use the beasts.

You'd actually be better off talking to manufacturers. If there was a chance
you were "reviewing" their product, they would send you one for the duration
of your research, and then the opinions you write would be your own and not
other peoples'.

I'm surprised you ask in here. We almost never agree - so how do you know
that the person whose opinion you get is actually right?

;o)

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...
"Mitchell" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats and
would
snip

I'm surprised you ask in here. We almost never agree - so how do
you know
that the person whose opinion you get is actually right?


I doubt he has ever read the group before, if he has at all, call me
cynical but this sounds like a typical "Can I get some plonkers on an
internet group to do my work / project for me" post to me.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...
"Mitchell" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats and
would
snip

I'm surprised you ask in here. We almost never agree - so how do
you know
that the person whose opinion you get is actually right?

I doubt he has ever read the group before, if he has at all, call me
cynical but this sounds like a typical "Can I get some plonkers on an
internet group to do my work / project for me" post to me.

NO IT DOESN'T

....

....

....

I did say we almost never agree ;o)

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...
"Mitchell" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats
and
would
snip

I'm surprised you ask in here. We almost never agree - so how
do
you know
that the person whose opinion you get is actually right?

I doubt he has ever read the group before, if he has at all, call
me
cynical but this sounds like a typical "Can I get some plonkers
on an
internet group to do my work / project for me" post to me.

NO IT DOESN'T


Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think we
will have to agree to disagree - but considering that the OP hasn't
(yet) returned.....

Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think we
will have to agree to disagree - but considering that the OP hasn't
(yet) returned.....

You do realise it was a joke?

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...
Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think
we
will have to agree to disagree - but considering that the OP
hasn't
(yet) returned.....

You do realise it was a joke?


Opps!

Sorry about the reply, I had just spent an hour sorting out a
hardware problem in one of the computers, never knew a simple power
supply / heard drive upgrade could turn into a network problem -
don't you just love it when two problems hit simultaneously.
Grrrr....

--
Jerry, now with less hair!

Thanks for all the useful help, chaps. I didn't come back sooner
because didn't see much point in responding to a few half baked
assumptions.

It is fairly common practice to ask experts, which I assumed you were,
for their opinions. It's part of journalism, ideally making sure that
we take on board the everyday experience built up over time that can't
be achieved with a straight review. If you were going to spend £1000
on a camcorder would you rather have the opinion of a reviewer based on
a week's trial or someone who'd used the camera for months?

It's a pity that so many aficionados are too far up their own apertures
to offer any kind of help to the novices of the world.



:::Jerry:::: wrote:

"G Hardy" wrote in message
...
Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think
we
will have to agree to disagree - but considering that the OP
hasn't
(yet) returned.....

You do realise it was a joke?


Opps!

Sorry about the reply, I had just spent an hour sorting out a
hardware problem in one of the computers, never knew a simple power
supply / heard drive upgrade could turn into a network problem -
don't you just love it when two problems hit simultaneously.
Grrrr....

--
Jerry, now with less hair!

In message . com,
Mitchell writes
Thanks for all the useful help, chaps. I didn't come back sooner because
didn't see much point in responding to a few half baked assumptions.

It is fairly common practice to ask experts, which I assumed you were,
for their opinions. It's part of journalism, ideally making sure that we take
on board the everyday experience built up over time that can't be
achieved with a straight review. If you were going to spend £1000 on a
camcorder would you rather have the opinion of a reviewer based on a
week's trial or someone who'd used the camera for months?

It's a pity that so many aficionados are too far up their own apertures to
offer any kind of help to the novices of the world.

You fail to recognise that most people will assert that their own
particular video camera is the best (within it's budget range) - simply
because folk aren't going to make the admission that what they have
chosen isn't the best choice. It's human nature.

Conclusions regarding the relative merits (or not) of HDD, DVD and
MiniDV are quite easy to determine - simply by looking at the media and
video formats that they employ.

Since you have obviously not bothered to do this - and you really
*should* have done this as a first step before asking here, I'll run
through what seems obvious (to most of the regulars here I would
think)..

First, a few basics....

DV (as employed by MiniDV) is generally accepted as being non-lossy [1].
MPEG-2 is lossy [1]. Since DVD uses VOB files (which are essentially
MPEG-2) the format's video is lossy. HDD uses MPEG-2 - again lossy [1].

HDD and DVD video cameras offer several recording variants, e.g.HQ (high
quality), STD (Standard quality), LP (long play) and EP (extended play).
The actual naming depends on the particular manufacturer. All these
settings do is adjust the sampling rate to range from high quality with
short recording times through to low quality with long recording times.
Irrespective of the user selection, the resulting quality is likely to
be lower than that associated with DV AVI which is captured from MiniDV
video cameras - and with some settings the MPEG-2/VOB will be much lower
quality.

Once that is understood, then there's only two remaining things to
recognise.

With DVD video recorders, may people don't want to go to the trouble of
capturing to a PC and then editing - all they want is a sort of
"instamatic" camcorder so they can just transfer the disk to their DVD
player and watch. If they do want to do some editing, because the format
is lossy then the resulting quality will leave much to be desired - but
maybe they aren't concerned about the quality.

To a certain extent the above downside (of DVD camcorders) is applicable
to HDD video cameras. But there's a further issue here. Someone who goes
away on holiday clutching his HDD video camera (and who selects any of
the higher quality settings) may well run out of disk space. Again they
can choose to use one of the LP setting which will degrade the quality.

On a level playing field, a HDD video camera is likely to be more
expensive because of the relatively high cost of the small hard disk
drives (compared with both DVD and MiniDV drives). There's also a
weight/size factor where HDD and DVD video cameras are usually heavier
and larger than the equivalent MiniDV video recorder.

And there, IMHO, you have it all. If you are interested in editing your
video and achieving relatively high quality, then MiniDV will be here
for a long time. If you're just a snap-happy videographer, then DVD is
the way to go. If you want to use your video camera over long periods
without having to transfer your video to a PC then HDD is NOT the way to
go.

[1] The terms lossy and non-lossy may require a few
words of explanation. MPEG-2 (and VOB) files, if
processed by a video editor are likely to need
"re-rendering" which reduces quality in a way that
is cumulative - the more times the video is
edited/re-rendered the worse the quality will fall.

--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

"Mitchell" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks for all the useful help, chaps. I didn't come back sooner
because didn't see much point in responding to a few half baked
assumptions.

It is fairly common practice to ask experts, which I assumed you were,
for their opinions. It's part of journalism...

It's fairly common practice (or at least it should be) that newsgroup
posters read the charter before posting. If you had, you'd have seen the
"rec" in "uk.rec.video.digital" stands for Recreational - which demotes the
vast majority of denizens in here (me included) from the status of "expert".

Is assumption a part of journalism? Remind me to never to believe anything I
read in the papers again.

Oh, hang on... ;o)