If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3 recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter any
problems with synchronisation?

I know with tape you can get fluctuations in the speed the tape actually
runs, etc, but what is digital tape like for this? Is it exact or are
there likely to be time differences between the camcorder and the
separate digital audio recording?

I only ask because I am looking at a camcorder which does not have a mic
input, yet I think this is something I would ideally want for some of my
filming.

(Am still considering the DCRHC42 Sony now that its available for just
under £400 on the web. Havent really seen anything else as good, i.e.
with 16:9 recording. Not too keen on Panasonic, based on past
experience. Have had an old Sony 8mm which has proved to be excellent,
hence the choice with Sony again).

Thanks,

Stephen.

"StephenH" wrote in message
...
If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the
audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3
recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter
any
problems with synchronisation?

You would need to use a clapper-board of some such means to force a
known synchronisation point.


I know with tape you can get fluctuations in the speed the tape
actually
runs, etc, but what is digital tape like for this? Is it exact or
are
there likely to be time differences between the camcorder and the
separate digital audio recording?

Anything is possible if the two deck are not linked by some form of
syncing signal / timecode etc..

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:49:20 +0100, StephenH
wrote:

If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3 recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter any
problems with synchronisation?

Less than you would on analogue media. As long as the scenes are
reasonably short and you have a reference point in each scene for
lining up audio and video (make a clapper board) you should be OK.

If you're thinking of filming a complete musical performance in one
shot, you probably WILL get some drift. Be prepared to re-align as
required. Convenient points to snip the audio track and slide it back
into alignment are not usually hard to find.



I know with tape you can get fluctuations in the speed the tape actually
runs, etc, but what is digital tape like for this? Is it exact or are
there likely to be time differences between the camcorder and the
separate digital audio recording?

I only ask because I am looking at a camcorder which does not have a mic
input, yet I think this is something I would ideally want for some of my
filming.

In message ,
StephenH writes
If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3
recorder in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to
encounter any problems with synchronisation?

MiniDisk seems to be fairly "creep-free". I've used mine several times.
The only thing you have to do is ensure that the beginning is synched.
Most video editors allow you to increment the audio or video track
position by either one of five frames. Usually by means of the
right/left arrow or (to give you a bigger movement) Shift + right/left.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

"Tony Morgan" wrote in message
...
In message , StephenH
writes
If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3 recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter any
problems with synchronisation?

MiniDisk seems to be fairly "creep-free". I've used mine several times.
The only thing you have to do is ensure that the beginning is synched.
Most video editors allow you to increment the audio or video track
position by either one of five frames. Usually by means of the right/left
arrow or (to give you a bigger movement) Shift + right/left.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the audio subject but can i ask how
long you can record onto one Mini Disk?

I am still preparing to video a musical production, in birmingham on 1st
October and any advice would be greatfully received,

Thanks

Peter

In message , Peter
Irving writes

"Tony Morgan" wrote in message
...
In message , StephenH
writes
If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3 recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter any
problems with synchronisation?

MiniDisk seems to be fairly "creep-free". I've used mine several times.
The only thing you have to do is ensure that the beginning is synched.
Most video editors allow you to increment the audio or video track
position by either one of five frames. Usually by means of the right/left
arrow or (to give you a bigger movement) Shift + right/left.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the audio subject but can i ask how
long you can record onto one Mini Disk?

There are four options:
SP/Stereo --- 80 min Battery life on rec --- 6.5 (6) hours
LP2 Stereo --- 160 min Battery life on rec --- 9 (10) hours
LP4 Stereo --- 320 min Battery life on rec --- 11.5 (13) hours
SP/Mono --- 160 min Battery life on rec --- 9 (100 hours

The battery life is typical for a Sharp miniDV with a fully charged
internal battery. The figure in braces is for a Sharp miniDV with a
single AA (LR6) dry cell battery (like Duracell). Figures for battery
life are approximate. Some Sharp miniDV recorders use internal
rechargeable battery, others a single AA battery, and some allow both
(combined) but I haven't included those figures.

If quality is an issue, then I'd suggest using LP2. LP4 is almost as
good, but there may be a little noise.

I am still preparing to video a musical production, in birmingham on 1st
October and any advice would be greatfully received,

First I'd point out that recording of productions is subject to
stringent copyright. You should get permission from the Performing
Rights Society before recording/videoing.

Laurence who lurks here can give you much better advice regarding sound
than I. The limiting factor for video is the one-hour tape length, but
changing tapes between each act should minimise this restriction. It's
inadvisable to record video at LP, since the tape is not guaranteed to
replay properly in any other camcorder than the one it was originally
recorded on. Providing the auditorium isn't too large (long), then I'd
suggest mounting the camcorder on a tripod and stand the tripod on a
table; this will ensure that audience heads don't show. Naturally, frame
the stage with the zoom control before you start, and leave it there.
Depending on the length of the auditorium, you can use a telephoto
adapter. If you camcorder has it, I'd suggest that you use 16:9 aspect
ratio.

HTH.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

Tony Morgan wrote:

In message , Peter
Irving writes


"Tony Morgan" wrote in message
...

In message ,
StephenH
writes

If I have a mini DV camcorder and shoot some film and record the audio
separately, say onto a portable MiniDisc unit or a portable MP3
recorder
in conjunction with a separate microphone - am I likely to encounter
any
problems with synchronisation?


MiniDisk seems to be fairly "creep-free". I've used mine several times.
The only thing you have to do is ensure that the beginning is synched.
Most video editors allow you to increment the audio or video track
position by either one of five frames. Usually by means of the
right/left
arrow or (to give you a bigger movement) Shift + right/left.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info


Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the audio subject but can i ask
how
long you can record onto one Mini Disk?

There are four options:
SP/Stereo --- 80 min Battery life on rec --- 6.5 (6) hours
LP2 Stereo --- 160 min Battery life on rec --- 9 (10) hours
LP4 Stereo --- 320 min Battery life on rec --- 11.5 (13) hours
SP/Mono --- 160 min Battery life on rec --- 9 (100 hours

The battery life is typical for a Sharp miniDV with a fully charged
internal battery. The figure in braces is for a Sharp miniDV with a
single AA (LR6) dry cell battery (like Duracell). Figures for battery
life are approximate. Some Sharp miniDV recorders use internal
rechargeable battery, others a single AA battery, and some allow both
(combined) but I haven't included those figures.

If quality is an issue, then I'd suggest using LP2. LP4 is almost as
good, but there may be a little noise.

I am still preparing to video a musical production, in birmingham on 1st
October and any advice would be greatfully received,

First I'd point out that recording of productions is subject to
stringent copyright. You should get permission from the Performing
Rights Society before recording/videoing.

Laurence who lurks here can give you much better advice regarding sound
than I. The limiting factor for video is the one-hour tape length, but
changing tapes between each act should minimise this restriction. It's
inadvisable to record video at LP, since the tape is not guaranteed to
replay properly in any other camcorder than the one it was originally
recorded on. Providing the auditorium isn't too large (long), then I'd
suggest mounting the camcorder on a tripod and stand the tripod on a
table; this will ensure that audience heads don't show. Naturally, frame
the stage with the zoom control before you start, and leave it there.
Depending on the length of the auditorium, you can use a telephoto
adapter. If you camcorder has it, I'd suggest that you use 16:9 aspect
ratio.

HTH.

Don't forget about Sonys newer Hi-MD discs which give you 7 hours 55
minutes per disc! And the quality isn't as bad as you'd imagine, its a
different method of audio compression when compared to LP2 and LP4
offered on the standard MDs.

In message ,
StephenH writes
Don't forget about Sonys newer Hi-MD discs which give you 7 hours 55
minutes per disc! And the quality isn't as bad as you'd imagine, its a
different method of audio compression when compared to LP2 and LP4
offered on the standard MDs.

I thought that the Sony Hi-MD capable miniDisk recorders still use
ATRAC3. I understood that the HiMD recorders simply used a lower
disk-rotation speed coupled with an improved media.
--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:00:40 +0100, Tony Morgan
wrote:

In message ,
StephenH writes
Don't forget about Sonys newer Hi-MD discs which give you 7 hours 55
minutes per disc! And the quality isn't as bad as you'd imagine, its a
different method of audio compression when compared to LP2 and LP4
offered on the standard MDs.

I thought that the Sony Hi-MD capable miniDisk recorders still use
ATRAC3. I understood that the HiMD recorders simply used a lower
disk-rotation speed coupled with an improved media.

The Hi-SP (256kbps) and Hi-LP (64kbps) modes use "ATRAC3plus", a
modification of the ATRAC3 compression. The main gains with HiMD media
are due to using Sony's patented DWDD (Domain Wall Displacement
Detection) magneto-optical system which allows much higher recording
densities, although even ordinary MD media can get almost a factor of 2
improvement in capacity (from 177MB to 305MB). See the FAQ at

http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

for more details.

Something which can improve quality at the longer recording rates is
sticking an audio compressor on the input, I've used 2:1 compression
starting at -40dB with a soft 'knee', combined with a 1:2 expander with
the cutoff at -40dB (to stop quiet parts being amplified unnecessarily)
with ordinary MD LP4 and had good results, the reduced dynamic range
seems to let the ATRAC3 compression work better. (On a portable MD
device, the builtin AVC would probably do the same.)

Chris C

"Chris Croughton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:00:40 +0100, Tony Morgan
wrote:

In message ,
StephenH writes
Don't forget about Sonys newer Hi-MD discs which give you 7 hours 55
minutes per disc! And the quality isn't as bad as you'd imagine, its a
different method of audio compression when compared to LP2 and LP4
offered on the standard MDs.

I thought that the Sony Hi-MD capable miniDisk recorders still use
ATRAC3. I understood that the HiMD recorders simply used a lower
disk-rotation speed coupled with an improved media.

The Hi-SP (256kbps) and Hi-LP (64kbps) modes use "ATRAC3plus", a
modification of the ATRAC3 compression. The main gains with HiMD media
are due to using Sony's patented DWDD (Domain Wall Displacement
Detection) magneto-optical system which allows much higher recording
densities, although even ordinary MD media can get almost a factor of 2
improvement in capacity (from 177MB to 305MB). See the FAQ at

http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

for more details.

Something which can improve quality at the longer recording rates is
sticking an audio compressor on the input, I've used 2:1 compression
starting at -40dB with a soft 'knee', combined with a 1:2 expander with
the cutoff at -40dB (to stop quiet parts being amplified unnecessarily)
with ordinary MD LP4 and had good results, the reduced dynamic range
seems to let the ATRAC3 compression work better. (On a portable MD
device, the builtin AVC would probably do the same.)

Chris C


Geez guys thanks for your help,

I have alreay set my camer positions, using 2 cams for each of 3
performances, it is the audio question that foxes me, and a mini disk or mp3
recorder would be the best idea. The production is unlikely to go beyond 120
minutes. The other option is to fit a high end mic to my static camera while
I would use the other cam for closeups etc. any suggestions as to make/model
of mic would be greatfully received.

A mammoth editing session would then follow of course,

One further question would be how to capture from mini disk and what format
would the files come in as. MP3 is no problem of course.

Copywright etc. is no problem as I am doing the whole project on behalf of
the composer of the musical.

The whole event is not til October 1st in Birmingham so I have some time to
sort myself out.

Thanks again.

Peter