Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

"Dave Newman" wrote in message
om...
Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

I'm considering a sony widescreen but can't work out if it's anamorphic
either. I understand that the CCD has to be big enough to take a 16:9 block
out of with room to spare for stabilisation, but are the DV mpegs compressed
ananmorphically or are they "true" widescreen as well? In which case they
will take up more bandwidth and reduce recording times. I can't see anything
about that in the literature.

"John Russell" wrote in message
...
"Dave Newman" wrote in message
om...
Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

I'm considering a sony widescreen but can't work out if it's anamorphic
either. I understand that the CCD has to be big enough to take a 16:9
block
out of with room to spare for stabilisation, but are the DV mpegs
compressed
ananmorphically or are they "true" widescreen as well? In which case they
will take up more bandwidth and reduce recording times. I can't see
anything
about that in the literature.

No such thing as 'true widescreen' really. Anamorphic widescreen is stored
in a 4:3 frame and stretched to 16:9 on the display - bandwidth requirements
identical to 4:3.

Apparently the way to tell is to switch between 4:3 and 16:9 - a 'true'
widescreen camera will show extra width rather than chopping top and
bottom...

Justin.

"Dave Newman" wrote in message
om...
Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

I found in the web this

""True" 16:9 widescreen
Unsurprisingly, Canon has followed other manufacturers like Sony by
introducing what it describes as "true" widescreen shooting capabilities on
these models, with all now featuring high-resolution 16:9 wide screen mode
for cinema-like full screen viewing on wide-screen television - the first
time high-resolution 16:9 has been incorporated in a digital video camera at
this price point, according to Canon. Letter Box display is used for correct
ratio display of 16:9 footage during recording and playback, thus avoiding
an otherwise squashed image.

*****It should be noted that this is effectively an anamorphically-treated
image which squeezes 16:9 optical data into the 4:3-ratio CCD array and not
the product of a true 16:9 CCD as is found on the company's more expensive
upmarket model, the Canon XL2. To give footage and stills a panoramic feel,
a 0.6x wide converter lens comes standard with the MV850i."****
So as far as I can seee it's not actually True 16:9 I think the only camera
that will do that at teh moment is the XL2 (as a resonable price)

No such thing as 'true widescreen' really. Anamorphic widescreen is
stored
in a 4:3 frame and stretched to 16:9 on the display - bandwidth
requirements
identical to 4:3.

Apparently the way to tell is to switch between 4:3 and 16:9 - a 'true'
widescreen camera will show extra width rather than chopping top and
bottom...

Justin.
I could be wrong on this one but how about the now Canon XL2 I think it has
a 16:9 chip everyone seems to be talking about it!

"Headrush Films UK" wrote in message
...

No such thing as 'true widescreen' really. Anamorphic widescreen is
stored
in a 4:3 frame and stretched to 16:9 on the display - bandwidth
requirements
identical to 4:3.

Apparently the way to tell is to switch between 4:3 and 16:9 - a 'true'
widescreen camera will show extra width rather than chopping top and
bottom...

But these cheap cameras do not have an anamophic lens fitted to create a 4:3
anamophically compressed image optically. They have to extract a True 16:9
block from out of the large 4:3 CCD these 16:9 camcorders are fitted with.
That gives them the option of creating true 16:9 MPEGs, or compressing the
1024 horizontal pixels down to 768 and creating an anamophic MPEG. It isn't
clear which of these they do.

"Headrush Films UK" wrote in message
...

No such thing as 'true widescreen' really. Anamorphic widescreen is
stored
in a 4:3 frame and stretched to 16:9 on the display - bandwidth
requirements
identical to 4:3.

Apparently the way to tell is to switch between 4:3 and 16:9 - a 'true'
widescreen camera will show extra width rather than chopping top and
bottom...

But these cheap cameras do not have an anamophic lens fitted to create a 4:3
anamophically compressed image optically. They have to extract a True 16:9
block from out of the large 4:3 CCD these 16:9 camcorders are fitted with.
That gives them the option of creating true 16:9 MPEGs, or compressing the
1024 horizontal pixels down to 768 and creating an anamophic MPEG. It isn't
clear which of these they do.

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

But these cheap cameras do not have an anamophic lens fitted to create a
4:3
anamophically compressed image optically. They have to extract a True 16:9
block from out of the large 4:3 CCD these 16:9 camcorders are fitted
with.
That gives them the option of creating true 16:9 MPEGs, or compressing the
1024 horizontal pixels down to 768 and creating an anamophic MPEG. It
isn't
clear which of these they do.

FWIW....
My Sony TRV22 has a pseudo 16:9 mode which loses data from top and bottom.
It may look wider, but it isn't. OTOH, my TRV60 sees quite a bit more of
any scene widthways when I set it to 16:9. On playback the aspect ratio of
my TV is automatically set to "Wide" mode, whatever that is, and the full
area of the wide screen is used. However, for best geometry, it's worth
pressing the buttons and setting the aspect ratio on the TV to 16:9. Not
sure whether they count as "cheap" cameras ?

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

"Dave Newman" schreef in bericht
om...
Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

It could and it is. There are a number of Sony and Canon cameras now that
film in what they call "true widescreen".

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

That is correct. For filming in widescreen it is important that all scan
lines are used. When thereafter the widescreen image is stored on tape, it
is condensed anamorphically in order to be accomodated in the 720x480 (NTSC)
of 720x576 (PAL) matrix which is a DV standard. In the old days 4:3 chips
were used. For filming in widescreen a number of scan lines at the top and
at the bottom where masked off and thereafter the image was interpolated to
use all scan lines. However, this lead to loss of resolution.

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

Canon has a brochure on their site for download.
--
Lou van Wijhe
Website: http://home.hccnet.nl/jl.van.wijhe/
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"Lou van Wijhe" schreef in bericht
l...
"Dave Newman" schreef in bericht
om...
Been looking at various web sites with respect to this camera, and one
thing is confusing me.

It says in the canon blurb that this camera is 'true' widescreen in
that it uses the full width of the CCD. Now if they've stretched it
anamorphically, surely they'd be using the full _height_ of the CCD?
In a camera in this bracket, the CCD couldn't be widescreen could it?

It could and it is. There are a number of Sony and Canon cameras now that
film in what they call "true widescreen".

or perhaps it's because for 4:3 video they only use a central portion
of a high resolution CCD, only using the full width for widescreen and
whole-ccd stills?

That is correct. For filming in widescreen it is important that all scan
lines are used. When thereafter the widescreen image is stored on tape, it
is condensed anamorphically in order to be accomodated in the 720x480
(NTSC) of 720x576 (PAL) matrix which is a DV standard. In the old days 4:3
chips were used. For filming in widescreen a number of scan lines at the
top and at the bottom where masked off and thereafter the image was
interpolated to use all scan lines. However, this lead to loss of
resolution.

very confusing. anyone had a play with this camera, or is it too new?

Canon has a brochure on their site for download.

Sorry, I've been mixing up camera types. I was looking at an MVX30i (which
is a megapixel camera) instead of a MV830i. The MV800 series is coming out
in March 2005 so no documentation is available yet. It is intriguing that
Canon claims that this series is "true widescreen" since it only has a 1/6
inch 800 megapixel CCD. For "true widescreen" one would need a megapixel
chip. The only explanation I can think of is switching an anamorphic lens
element into the ray path. Of course, this is only speculation.
--
Lou van Wijhe
Website: http://home.hccnet.nl/jl.van.wijhe/
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