I frequently upload video clips to the web and I am cheesed off with the
appalling low upload speeds of most Brit ISPs. I am currently with the NTL
£25 a month 750k download/128k upload package. I also read that this will be
upgraded to 2MB download and 200 kB upload without an increase in charge. I
have no complaints about that in general - it seems like a good deal--for
people who don't upload much.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

The problem is that, being a regular video uploader, I do as much uploading
as downloading and I have lobbied NTL about increasing the upload speed to
no avail it would seem.

I have read that in Japan and Korea they have 4 MB or even 10 MB (sic)
download AND upload VDSL for about the same prices that we are paying here
for much slower speeds. As I understand it, the Japanese and Korean
governments subsidise their ISPs (while our government subsidises the US war
effort).

I am looking round for an ISP that has higher upload rates. I know about
UKonline and its 8MB/400K ADSL, but this would mean getting a BT line with a
line rental of £9.50 a month, At the moment I do not pay any line rental
because it comes free if you have cable TV. Thus, moving to UKOnline would
be £9.50 plus £39.99. Effectively a doubling of my monthly phone/broadband
costs.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
I frequently upload video clips to the web and I am cheesed off with
the appalling low upload speeds of most Brit ISPs. I am currently with
the NTL £25 a month 750k download/128k upload package. I also read that
this will be upgraded to 2MB download and 200 kB upload without an
increase in charge. I have no complaints about that in general - it
seems like a good deal--for people who don't upload much.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

The problem is that, being a regular video uploader, I do as much
uploading as downloading and I have lobbied NTL about increasing the
upload speed to no avail it would seem.

I have read that in Japan and Korea they have 4 MB or even 10 MB (sic)
download AND upload VDSL for about the same prices that we are paying
here for much slower speeds. As I understand it, the Japanese and
Korean governments subsidise their ISPs (while our government
subsidises the US war effort).

I am looking round for an ISP that has higher upload rates. I know
about UKonline and its 8MB/400K ADSL, but this would mean getting a BT
line with a line rental of £9.50 a month, At the moment I do not pay
any line rental because it comes free if you have cable TV. Thus,
moving to UKOnline would be £9.50 plus £39.99. Effectively a doubling
of my monthly phone/broadband costs.


Hi Jim, I appreciate your dilemma, but having an NTL line ties you to
NTL. The same applies to Telewest. Most other ISPs need you to have a BT
line.

Sorry!

Regards,
Ian

In message , Jim
writes
I frequently upload video clips to the web and I am cheesed off with the
appalling low upload speeds of most Brit ISPs. I am currently with the NTL
£25 a month 750k download/128k upload package. I also read that this will be
upgraded to 2MB download and 200 kB upload without an increase in charge. I
have no complaints about that in general - it seems like a good deal--for
people who don't upload much.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

The problem is that, being a regular video uploader, I do as much uploading
as downloading and I have lobbied NTL about increasing the upload speed to
no avail it would seem.

I have read that in Japan and Korea they have 4 MB or even 10 MB (sic)
download AND upload VDSL for about the same prices that we are paying here
for much slower speeds. As I understand it, the Japanese and Korean
governments subsidise their ISPs (while our government subsidises the US war
effort).

I am looking round for an ISP that has higher upload rates. I know about
UKonline and its 8MB/400K ADSL, but this would mean getting a BT line with a
line rental of £9.50 a month, At the moment I do not pay any line rental
because it comes free if you have cable TV. Thus, moving to UKOnline would
be £9.50 plus £39.99. Effectively a doubling of my monthly phone/broadband
costs.

You do have to be realistic Jim. NTL provide their Internet services on
the back of their television and telephone services. The bulk of other
ISPs have to get their connectivity through BT, and then bundle on top
their services. As Yorkshiremen say "You get nowt for nowt".

I'm told that NTL don't have a very good reputation, which is borne out
if you go to http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp and compare
them with (say) Zen Internet (from whom I get my ADSL). The adslguide
site is useful for anyone going broadband for the first time, or for
those who are considering changing ISP (which I did from Pipex).

But the bottom line is if you want the bandwidth you're going to have to
pay.

The limiting factor with ADSL is the distance you are from the exchange,
and the quality of your line. A high proportion of ADSL users are
limited to 512 upload and 256 download. And you'll only discover if
you're limited to 512/256 once you've signed up with an ISP, and they
ask BT to connect you (they test your line before connecting).

--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:05:22 +0000, Tony Morgan
wrote:

The limiting factor with ADSL is the distance you are from the exchange,
and the quality of your line. A high proportion of ADSL users are
limited to 512 upload and 256 download.

I think you meant to write that as 512 download and 256 upload ;-)

I've got Telewest too and as a web developer I regularly put up files
to sites. It'd always be nicer to have more upload or at least DSL
rather than ADSL - currently I have 1000/250 download/upload ratio.

And you'll only discover if
you're limited to 512/256 once you've signed up with an ISP, and they
ask BT to connect you (they test your line before connecting).

I do wonder in the case of BT tied ADSL lines, that the line quality
can be boosted from the exchange end more easily that from the
subscriber end in the same way you used to get with modems
(40-56k/28k).

But this shouldn't necessarily apply to cableco's like NTL & TW where
they have either fibre or -at least- coax cables into the subscriber
box.

Would be interesting to see if Telewest were amenable to persuasion on
the basis they could sell videochat/videophone services, which would
beefit from over 256 upstream to be realistic 15-25fps quality.

The real PITA is that video being already highly compressed, wouldn't
even benefit from line level data compression upstream :-p

Cheers Neil

In message , "Neil Smith
[MVP Digital Media]" writes
I do wonder in the case of BT tied ADSL lines, that the line quality
can be boosted from the exchange end more easily

"Quality" in this context is not amplitude, but noise [1] and capacity
(i.e. Coulombs - not bandwidth).

that from the subscriber end in the same way you used to get with
modems (40-56k/28k).

The modems you speak about gained higher bandwidth through using phase
quadrature modulation in conjunction with MFC [2].

[1] More accurately (signal+noise) to (noise) ratio.

[2] V90/V92 use "step-down" so that if the line quality
deteriorated, then the speed would automatically
reduce.

--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:55:17 +0000, Tony Morgan
wrote:

In message , "Neil Smith
[MVP Digital Media]" writes
I do wonder in the case of BT tied ADSL lines, that the line quality
can be boosted from the exchange end more easily

"Quality" in this context is not amplitude, but noise [1] and capacity
(i.e. Coulombs - not bandwidth).

that from the subscriber end in the same way you used to get with
modems (40-56k/28k).

The modems you speak about gained higher bandwidth through using phase
quadrature modulation in conjunction with MFC [2].

Aye capn. I think we crossed over, I meant that my understanding was
that the telco 'end' of the line could be 'driven harder' (however the
definition actually worked out in real terms) than from the subscriber
'end' of the modem to modem connection.

[1] More accurately (signal+noise) to (noise) ratio.

Sounds likely.

[2] V90/V92 use "step-down" so that if the line quality
deteriorated, then the speed would automatically
reduce.

I think that's what was misunderstood - I meant the modem was capable
of between 33-48kbps download (the 'step down' you mentioned).

But that it was capable of only 28kbps sustained upload due to line
driving issues which the telco could overcome from the exchange end,
but wasn't practical to compensate for in a comparable way from the
subscribers cheapo modem end.

Cheers - Neil

Self-correction: in Japan and Korea they can alreasy have 50MB or 100MB VDSL
upload and download at the prices we pay for 2 or 3 MB. Google "Korea
Telecom" to confirm this.


"Jim" wrote in message
...
I frequently upload video clips to the web and I am cheesed off with the
appalling low upload speeds of most Brit ISPs. I am currently with the NTL
£25 a month 750k download/128k upload package. I also read that this will
be upgraded to 2MB download and 200 kB upload without an increase in
charge. I have no complaints about that in general - it seems like a good
deal--for people who don't upload much.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

The problem is that, being a regular video uploader, I do as much
uploading as downloading and I have lobbied NTL about increasing the
upload speed to no avail it would seem.

I have read that in Japan and Korea they have 4 MB or even 10 MB (sic)
download AND upload VDSL for about the same prices that we are paying here
for much slower speeds. As I understand it, the Japanese and Korean
governments subsidise their ISPs (while our government subsidises the US
war effort).

I am looking round for an ISP that has higher upload rates. I know about
UKonline and its 8MB/400K ADSL, but this would mean getting a BT line with
a line rental of £9.50 a month, At the moment I do not pay any line rental
because it comes free if you have cable TV. Thus, moving to UKOnline would
be £9.50 plus £39.99. Effectively a doubling of my monthly phone/broadband
costs.

"CE" wrote in message
...
Self-correction: in Japan and Korea they can alreasy have 50MB or 100MB
VDSL
upload and download at the prices we pay for 2 or 3 MB. Google "Korea
Telecom" to confirm this.


I suspect that their telecom infrastructure is able to cope with those
speeds, here in the UK we still have a 50 year old system beyond the
exchange in some locations.

Anyway that's as may be but who *needs* to shift 'uncompressed' video files
over the net in real time other then broadcasters (who will be able to pay
for such bandwidth and the required infrastructure) ?

So Tony Are you an ex-BT engineer then?

"Tony Morgan" wrote in message
...
In message , "Neil Smith [MVP
Digital Media]" writes
I do wonder in the case of BT tied ADSL lines, that the line quality can
be boosted from the exchange end more easily

"Quality" in this context is not amplitude, but noise [1] and capacity
(i.e. Coulombs - not bandwidth).

that from the subscriber end in the same way you used to get with modems
(40-56k/28k).

The modems you speak about gained higher bandwidth through using phase
quadrature modulation in conjunction with MFC [2].

[1] More accurately (signal+noise) to (noise) ratio.

[2] V90/V92 use "step-down" so that if the line quality
deteriorated, then the speed would automatically
reduce.

--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info

In message , Headrush Films UK
writes
Snipped...

So Tony Are you an ex-BT engineer then?

No. But I have had more than a passing brush with the technology over
the years. C&G Part II in Telecoms, and two years working in R&D of an
outfit called CASE (once prominent) who produced one of the first LAN
systems - using RS232. I also worked at Martlesham Heath on contract. A
little later I also worked (on contract again) on ITT's first digital
exchanges (Metaconta 11B2/4) and on GEC's TXE4. Later again I worked on
HART, a technology that superimposed RS232 on current-loop process
control circuits. All a long time ago now (79 and early 80s) but the
fundamentals of some technologies don't change. And many of the problems
still remain today.

--
Tony Morgan
http://www.camcord.info